From dentistry to tech startups through testing and validating career ideas - Tom Youngs Artwork

Burn From Within

I'm Matt Garrow-Fisher. And this is the Burn From Within Show. Each week, I interview inspiring people who have changed their career or life to light up inside. So if you want to get excited about your Mondays, work on meaningful projects, and have more time for the passions and people that matter to you, stay tuned.

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Burn From Within

From dentistry to tech startups through testing and validating career ideas - Tom Youngs

December 31, 2020 • Matt Garrow-Fisher • Season 1 • Episode 30

In this episode, I talk to Tom Youngs who made the big leap from successfully starting a career in dentistry in a well-respected private practice in the UK, to jumping into entrepreneurship in tech startups.

I met Tom over five years ago - a well-respected coach I had hired suggested he meet me and it was at the start of his career change journey. Five years later, after a few pivots,I noticed how happy he was from a LinkedIn post celebrating working with his team in the tech startup world. So I wanted to find out more about how his career change unfolded.

This episode is particularly relevant for people who feel they have large sunk costs from being in a career for years or spending many years, and a lot of money, training in a profession. It’s also for those whose families are in the same profession as them. Tom ticks all these boxes and came out successfully in a new career he loves.

In this episode we discuss:

The moment that hit Tom he was not in the right career for him after years of being focused and dedicated to achieving that goal
Managing his career transition working in two tech startups while working at his dental practice
Lessons he has learnt in hindsight from making his decision to change career
How Tom knows this is the right career for him now
Having a sense of freedom and a bubble bursting connecting him to the world
What’s the one thing that makes Tom Youngs burn from within?

The full show notes and videos of other interviews are available at burnfromwithin.com/interviews - so listen all the way through and enjoy!

Resources:

The Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss - the book that influenced thousands, if not millions of people, including Tom Youngs and myself to delve into entrepreneurship and be able to do things they love

Contact:

Here is Tom Youngs LinkedIn profile - connect with him there and feel free to ask any questions or share your reflections from watching this episode directly with him.

And if you want to book a free 20-minute consultation call with Matt Garrow-Fisher to help you on the One Thing to focus on next for your career change, click here.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 0:27

In this episode, I talked to Tom Youngs who made the big leap from successfully starting a career in dentistry, in a well-respected private practice in the UK to jumping into entrepreneurship in tech startups. I met Tom over five years ago, or well-respected coach. I had hired suggested he meet me. And it was the start of his career change journey. Five years later, after a few pivots, I noticed how happy he was from a LinkedIn post celebrating, working with his team in the tech startup world. So I wanted to find out more about how his career change unfolded. This episode is particularly relevant for people who feel they have large sunk costs from being in a career for years or spending many years, and a lot of money training in a profession. It's also for those whose families are in the same percent profession as them, Tom ticks all these boxes and came out successfully in a new career. He loves in this episode, we discuss the moment that Tom. Realized he was not in the right career for him managing his career transition, working in two tech startups, while working at his dental practice lessons, he has learned in hindsight from making his decision to change in career. How Tom knows this is the right career for him now And what's the one thing that makes Tom Young's burn from within the full show notes and videos of other interviews are available@burnfromwithin.com forward slash interviews. So listen all the way through and enjoy. You trained, I think in 2009 to 2013, you did a biomedical sciences degree. Then you did a dentistry degree for four years after that. And then went, I'm an associate dentist, a cosmetic dentist. For most people who are in the medical field that's it for them. Isn't it. It's like I've done all of this training. I've done. This learning and I'm on this path now. What made you start to have doubts about that path and how did that start to unfold?

Tom Youngs: 2:44

Yeah. Quite rightly so you, you mentioned that I had done actually the two degrees, so dentistry was my PO. Postgraduate degree. So I did the, I went the long way round. I did the proper marathon routes to get my qualification. So if anything, this looks even more it's even more spectacular taking a leap away from it. But yeah, I can tell you, I can tell you when one, the day that I had the. Probably when it dawned on me was actually he was one and a half years after graduating. So it was in 2014. And I had gotten myself to a position where I had actually managed to get my dream job a year and a half after graduating, which is quite was something I didn't expect to actually achieve for about another five years. So all of a sudden I was sitting in a fully private practice 18 months after, after graduating and I was seeing Perhaps sometimes only two to three patients a day because I was able to refer procedures that I didn't like to other clinicians and I was focusing on the stuff I loved. So one of us are know sat in my dental practice, in my, in this room, not too dissimilar to this four white walls, quite compact. And. I was doing essentially what I thought I wouldn't be able to do for another five years. I thought, where my roadmap for my career. I would never get to that position for at least another five plus years. And it, it took me 18 months and it was at that moment when it it hit me like a train and I was just like, Oh, shit. This is it. Isn't it. This is it for 40 years. And perhaps is, feeling quite remote maybe in quite a small town in the middle of the country. Feeling very far removed from friends and family and it was the first time I realized that for you to forge a career as a clinician, you need to stay in one place. And don't think I'd really ever forecasts that in my head. I'd never really thought forward about that. And then it suddenly hit me. And that was the moment. That was the moment when I was like, I'd had the dream job. I was working in a great practice with a great team. And I was like, Oh, this is it. It was a pretty stark awakening. Hit me quite hard. So that was the moment that, that was the moment. So yeah.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 5:14

It's insane because, you've, you worked so hard for so many years and you had that, it was like a. You said it's a dream job and it was a target in your mind for a long time. If the networking online you did the Saturday job and you did everything in your power to get, what was on your, in your vision. And then it's just so interesting that when you're actually there and sitting there, that realization came about I'm curious. For people that are maybe starting a degree perhaps with the power of hindsight, what would you have done differently in your degree with that knowledge now? And what would you say to people who are starting qualifications or new career paths with what you've with what you've learned to prevent that realization at such a late stage.

Tom Youngs: 6:09

Yeah, I think probably to answer that question, but I have to look back at the reasons why, yeah, I did it in the first place to, if I can look back in hindsight and for context. So I come from a family where based in my parents through, within the medical profession and I grew up with. A and wider family members as well. So my dad, my mum they're both worked in hospitals. They're friends, family, all worked in hospitals. I grew up and it was essentially the only thing I knew was available to me. Not that. Not really there wasn't other options, but I think I saw it at a young age. I saw my parents life. If I saw the life that they were very, I was very fortunate to receive as one of their children. And it was a very logical decision to me. I had similar interests, so like my brother, like my dad, like my mum, did do have a a natural interest in science. And so it was really just a logical kind of step for me to take towards that field. I think the world is different now. I really do think that we are in this connected hyper-connected world that we live in where there's even. So when I was making that decision, it was 2003 when I was a 15 year old boy. Yeah. Someone that goes into the medical field, you have to make that decision when you are 15 at least in the UK, So you make that decision when you've just done your GCs. And when you check those, choose your a levels at the age of 15, that's when you make that decision, I want to be a clinician, which. In hindsight I don't, I personally don't believe that is the best way to, to make sure that you have you have clinicians that are going to be fulfilled and prevent things like prevent circumstances like this happening, or perhaps people that maybe actually that wasn't the right thing for them. I don't know. You, do you agree? Do you think that's that's probably one of the. Probably one of the negatives around our system and at least in the UK is that we are expected to be, to make predict our future from a young age.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 8:13

Yeah, I think a lot of the advice that I give people who are thinking about a new career Not necessarily 15 year olds that are about to start their a levels, but it's, it applies to everyone is to stop testing and getting experience. And, you did get experience in terms of, when you were doing your degree and you were doing a Saturday that Saturday job, and you were getting a feel for. How it was, but to start choosing your future and, 40, 50 year future without having any experience in terms of what it would be like to work in a dental practice or in the medical field. And just on a, I think a lot of students, they might, see the TV show house or something. Something like that and get inspired and go, Oh, I want to do that. And the reality is probably quite different to what's in your mind.

Tom Youngs: 9:07

Yeah. And I can relate to that because I was the same. I watched it was ER, to ER, What I watched. And yeah, when we talk about work experience, I did work experience when I was like a 14, 15 year old. I worked as a nurse when I was 16 during the summer holidays. But when it came to dentistry, I had I think I have three hours worth of work experience where I sat in my dentist's surgery for an afternoon. And that was what I had made. That was my decision making at the time, at the age of, at that point, I was 20. And it was like, okay, yeah, it's crazy to look back. But I think my point was is that we were in a much we're in a much less connected world where there was much less information being readily accessible. One of the things that I think myself and you. Probably have kinda Kendred interests in is obviously entrepreneurship. And that's something that I definitely think is is a pathway that is it is more accessible to a younger generation. Whereas I don't think I think in hindsight, I think it would be very difficult for me to say I would have done anything differently. Because of, I think there's just a, from a generational perspective. So yeah, I think it's difficult for me to look back and say, What would I have done? Would I have done anything differently? I think I'd have to stick with with my answer, which would be no, I think in my experience that I had, so my first degree gave me a certain set of experiences that I learned from and grew from my second degree. That taught me that I was. If I wanted to be, I could be extremely hard working and I can be successful as well. So I think I learned a lot from those. And I think that those experiences allow just perhaps gave me confidence, which I do think is the value of university experience to some people. Is the, isn't it an ability is. That gives them an environment where they're out of a comfort zone of living at home, that outside the comfort zone of being provided for in that, on their own two feet. And some people thrive in their circumstance. Some people maybe take a little bit more time to get into that, but I definitely think that was at least my second degree really helped. Give them what, give me and grow confident in my abilities. If I really wanted to put my head to something. So I think that's the, that was the benefits of those shoes, the long way round. But yeah, I think it's just one of those things you just Part is part of my I suppose my kind of my life. And yeah, I don't think I, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now, which I'm incredibly happy about and excited about if it wasn't for those experiences. Yeah.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 11:44

Let's go back to that moment where you realized, Whoa, hang on. I'm going to be doing this for 40 years fast forward a bit to starting to unpack what else you thought you wanted to do? Because as I said earlier, dentistry, the medical profession, large sunk costs, difficult to get out Which directions were you turning to? Did you have any kind of inkling of what you wanted to do? And now you're doing your you're in entrepreneurship and you've gone, you've worked at various startups and. In, in sales and business development and managing teams and all that kind of stuff, very different to dentistry. So how did you start getting the ideas and the seed for that new career path?

Tom Youngs: 12:35

Yeah, so I think the most important thing that I did at that stage was I recognized that and this goes back to your point. I recognize that I actually needed to make a decision sooner rather than later. So I think that the most important thing I did at the time was I recognized that this isn't something that I can dwell on. This is something that I actually have to make a decision relatively fast and the reason, and there are reasons for this, and this is why go empathize with anyone going through this especially within the medical field. There are many things within that profession that are holding on to you. For the majority of people, those are responsibilities. So that's basic responsibilities, whether it's rent whether it's looking after kids it's, basis of having an income. And the problem with the medical field is that as your income increases, and this is probably again, one of the reasons why I actually left and people do ask me about this all the time. It's the most common question I get asked is that they're surprised I left the industry because it's such a well-paid job. And I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that. And the reason is because as you develop as a clinician your income will go up. But your expenses as a, especially as a private clinician. So your expenses of your overheads just like they go, they're exponential. So as an example so as an early clinician is when you leave leave the medical fresh and you need to pay insurance to go to work and the same for a medic. Same for dentist. And as a dentist, when I when I graduated my first year, I paid five pounds for my entire annual insurance fee. The next year, it goes up to a hundred quid for the year. Now the next year they're like, it'll be 500 quid now for your third year. And that never stops going up. I realized that I needed to make a decision sooner rather than later, because there are within the profession each year, each, or even six months, every six months you stay in it, there are, you have more responsibilities and the harder it is to get out. So basically I was like, okay I got to do this and that's now whenever I make the jump now. And so that kind of left a bit of a firearm neath my ass to be like, okay, this is a time dependent thing, you need to really make this job. Now do this now. So the first thing I did was recognized that I needed to make this decision relatively fast. And then the next thing was like, okay, great. Shit. What do I do next? Which is, I think the, yeah, the the Genesis of that question is that it is quite all of a sudden you're in this position where it's like I've made this decision. I want to do something else. I don't know what though. So yeah the, so what I decided to do was actually based and I credit a book that I read during university. For this. And I think the main thing that actually sparked my spot's the question in my head of is this what I wanted to do for the rest of my life which was the four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss, which I know you're very much fan of but yeah so I read that in, in 20, I think 2011. So I was still at the university. And I'm sure many of the, your listeners are familiar with the book. The concept of the book being that essentially the. That we have some very precious commodities in life. And one of those most precious is time. And we have a limit. We have a complete limit on a finite amount of time on this planet. And I think that was why when I had this realization, when I was sitting in the dental practice. Okay, crap, this is it for 40 years. I just have to sit here basically. And it was quite, it was the most stressful job I have done. And I still have back in dentistry was always the most stressful I've ever had to do. What I made a decision just around that time. I sat in that practice was okay. I remember the four hour workweek and I've been a huge fan. And I was like, is there a way I can do something entrepreneurial within. Dentistry. That means I don't have to be a clinician and I can leverage that the philosophy for, from that book, which is to create some sort of passive income through productizing, so I embarked on a process of designing some surgical instruments, with the initial intention was to sell them within the international dental market. So these were niche products, which again was one of the philosophies of the book was to create super hyper niche products. And it was a niche product that again, in the book, Tim recommends the, or an expert in. And so here I was I'd S I had sunk all this effort and invested all this time and education into becoming a nerd, a topic. So I was like, this is great because I do think that there is a need for these types of instruments. I know the I really feel like I have a great finger on the pulse of the that niche. I was considered probably a little bit of a thought leader, a key opinion leader within that niche. I was starting to lecture internationally and spending a lot of time networking with it. So I, I saw an opportunity and that kinda got me a little bit excited cause I was like, great. So I actually went through this whole process of designing these surgical instruments with a manufacturer within I think it was Pakistan. And back and forth creating the samples. And I was like, okay, I'm going to sink a certain amount of money into this. And I got to the point where it was basically like, okay you've designed these, do you want them, if you want them, you're going to have to put in an order. And the order was, would have been tens of thousands of pounds to get, that was the initial startup cost. Oh, it was like, ah, that point, my, my passion for wanting to be in the dental industry was starting to wane. I'm really enjoyed that process of designing stuff, setting up a company the process of of strategizing. I absolutely loved that. I was thinking, it was really getting my, like my, the light bulb in my head was. Properly it all the time about, okay, I can do this. I was excited about the opportunity to do this and that and where I can go with it. And I think that for me, it was the real thing that sparked me was like, okay, I actually, I love this process of building something of trying to build something. At that point realized I don't want to be here within this medical professional anymore, but. I was obviously a, a fan of Tim I'm a fan of some of his contemporaries and a large part of what they were doing was angel investing in tech startups. So I was like, that sounds fun. Sounds interesting. Let me look into that. And at which point I think it was at that point where I was like, okay I've done. I'm doing all these little things, got a bit of an idea. I should probably talk to a professional about the fact that I'm about to make this career change choice. Which was, that was at the point when essentially I met you through our mutual coach, Michael. Was, at that time I researched online, just looked at the kind of career change coaches or career changed specialists and found Michael. I ended up working with him so for six months so my, myself and him would meet every couple of weeks and. Just for people that are aware of this. So the way w the way I worked with Michael at the time, Michael is a high net worth coach. So he works with high net worth individuals. At that time I was definitely not, and I still am not a higher net worth. Person. So the cost to, to buy his coaching was significant at the time. So I paid at the time I paid 3000 pounds for a course of coaching, which was a lot of money and I had to get that out. I took that in the form of credit. So I think I paid on Amex. I bought, I got an Amex card and I dug myself into a little bit more debt that I probably didn't. Want to have, this was a huge, probably crossroads in my life. And I felt like I should probably, this is may not be the most, the best use of money, but I felt like I can look back on it and I'll be like at least I covered all my bases. If that makes sense. And that was at that point, he introduced me to you. And and you were meeting with you and a couple of other people that Michael put me in contact with who was probably the, the real instigator and me feeling like. Confident in that. Okay. I can do this. And this is really interesting path that I could go down and I felt super inspired by meeting yourself and some others that I'd met that were doing similar things working. That's interesting.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 21:15

That's interesting. That this point about speaking to two different people to, to. To get inspired and to, start having a belief in a certain career path in startups, in entrepreneurship, in your case, what was it about speaking to people and also coaching as well, that really helped you to know, first of all, to know that was the path for you. And second of all to actually start taking action. On that path. What was it about those conversations with people? And also,

Tom Youngs: 21:54

I think it's important to probably say at this stage that despite speaking to you and being inspired by you and other others at no point, did I feel like I never had the full a hundred percent confidence that what I was doing was the right thing. Never, I, you always have something on one shoulder telling you, keep on going. And then the other shoulder, there is someone, something they're saying, making you question things. And so what, and this is what Michael was very good at good at doing. And helping me with in that process was actually For by simplifying this essentially brainstorming things that I had passions and interests in and some level of ability. Within to dust, putting it really simply and distilling it from a number, a lot of hours spent doing that, but it was a process where we took our time and I and working with him was an understanding of, okay, there are and lots of potential options did come up there. Weren't it wasn't as straightforward as a, okay. There's this. And that's why he was really helpful in directing me to people like you because So you had a very different angle and experience to some of the other people that I met with, even though you're all doing similar entrepreneurial things. I think what he wanted to do is just introduce me to people that were doing different things within entrepreneurial-ism. So I could get get a taste for those different things. So another guy that I met was a guy called Rob Donovan. He was a CEO of a essentially a startup accelerator fund. I think he's now at least the MD of a really successful HR platform called Charlie that I've used in startups before. So he was doing that kind of that tech startup world. And that was. Eventually the, what pushed me down that, that kind of route towards working with startups was actually from, from meeting him. Unfortunately at that time it didn't have the confidence they're going to do something on my own. So it was like, okay, spent now it's time to spend some time working in the industry, which was within technology and gained some experience, working with different businesses, different teams. And that's where that that perhaps how that process. Process happened.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 24:05

That kind of gave you the inspiration to go. Yeah this sounds like something I do want to do. And then you started work in startups and actually, you were playing on the field, you were actually in the game Cause it's a big again, it's it could be a big commitment in terms of a career path, right? 40 years or even 20 years or whatever, you're committing to, to developing this career and this journey in your life. So how did you ensure like confidence that this

Tom Youngs: 24:35

was a right thing. So I think It's important to stay. It's like preface this, but, I always knew that I wanted my own business. That was something that no matter what I always wanted to be my boss, I wanted to own my own business and they mine organizations. So that was something that always had in the back of my mind. And that was one of the reasons I went to that, that that that Period of creating and designing my own business and surgical instruments and stuff was to get some experience in that. But then I was then S course workers and I didn't have a business idea, so I couldn't work for any, I can start a business. I didn't, because I didn't have a business idea. So the only option for me was for me to just really just jump to for today in into these Into these organizations and just get some experience. So I didn't have complete faith that this was what I wanted to do, but what I had faith in was the, if I put myself into that situation, I would at least find out the answer. So the way I did it was I I was working three days a week as a dentist. So I was doing Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays in Somerset. And I was doing Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays in London working for, to to seed stage startups within accelerated funds within in London. And these are unpaid internships. So I was doing three days a week as an unpaid, as unpaid interns in two different startups. One was an advertising startup. One was a a finance financial services startup. And then, yeah, I was doing three days a week driving out Somerset, staying in a hotel for a couple of nights and basically making it work whilst I gained, tried to gain some experience, something for a CV so that hopefully I could get myself a full-time position. Which is eventually what happened after about six months.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 26:19

You were in this transition phase you were still working in dentistry and, but you're also testing the ground of this new career. How was managing that transition into a full-time job? Was it difficult? Is it something like, think through the actual transition period? Cause that can be quite rough for some people.

Tom Youngs: 26:39

Oh man. Absolutely. And this goes back to my point earlier about how I recognize that this was a decision that I had to make fast was because I was at a time in my life where I had the absolute the lowest amount of responsibility I was going to have. So I didn't have any kids didn't have any dependents. Didn't have a mortgage. Didn't have I was. Essentially free. So I was free to do what I wanted. So the only thing that I had in my head was, okay what do I need to at least maintain my standard of living, which at that point w which is why it's, this is a very case dependent This is a really case dependent discussion. And everyone is going to be in a different kind of situation. But the way I did it was that I recognize that for me to maintain my current living standards, I would be, I'd be on, I basically needed to earn 30,000 pounds per year. That's what I was earning working three days a week as a dentist. And then three days a week I could afford to work unpaid. And so for six months I was. Just about making that work. I was actually fortunate enough that during that time I didn't pay rent because I lived with my auntie. I did when I moved to London. Obviously I my aunt and uncle were very very, I was very fortunate that they allow me to stay there for the six months whilst I was doing that transition period. So it didn't have as much money as pay on rent. So that's what allowed me to do that. But it's a really difficult, it's a really difficult thing to I think each person has to look at their own circumstance and what it was a for me was look to the resources that I had. So I had family and friends that I could stay with. I know I tried to, there was. I still had to work. So that was the, the, and it was basically what happened was the, I worked, did that situation for six, six months and then kept on applying for jobs, applying for the full-time jobs within the tech world. And then finally someone took upon and I managed to get a job, which it was a sales job working for a small tech toy startup. And yeah, it kinda got me, it was the same, just about the same salary for just under 30,000 years. So 30,000 pounds a year, including commission. And that was what really got me, allow me to take that full leap. Was that was the, when the full transition happened but yeah, I had to be a little bit secretive of asset because yeah, it would have affected it would have affected my, my, yeah, my clinical work.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 29:05

So you got the job at the tech startup and it was full time. Now fast forward to now, and you've actually been in this, on this path for a few years. What, I guess with, again, with the power of fine sight looking back now and you seem really happy with your career and how it's going and also aligned as well. I get the sense of you're quite aligned with what you're doing as well with hindsight. Now, how would you be able to put your finger on why this is such a good career for you?

Tom Youngs: 29:40

So I've for, again for context, I've recently launched my business. Which would like, like I mentioned, it was always my dream. So this year we finally went live with a business that I'd been working on for the last couple of years. It's a, an online store for sustainable beauty products called viable beauty. And I I co-founded it with one of my. Existing colleagues that I also work with. And so you could consider this kind of like a side hustle at the moment. So I have a I have a full-time job where I work as a a web user experience expert analyst. So I work with the likes of Tommy Hilfiger, all of a bonus to help. The teams understand how to improve that websites. And at the same time I have launched my own website. I'm doing some of the things. And so both of my jobs are super complimentary at the moment. They've they really compliment each other very well. So at the same time, as me getting experienced, working with all of these huge businesses and huge organizations, I'm also at the moment, having a lot of fun building my own thing. So I'm really yeah, really really liking really enjoying that. I don't know how it's turned out that way, but I think that what I did was I I really understood that there was, at that time of career change, I recognized that the two biggest things I recognize were was one that this is a decision that is time dependent. And I can't dwell on this. And I, it has to be, it has to be something that the longer I keep it, the harder this is, I'm going to make this whole process. And then the second thing was just make sure you've. Covered all bases. But so now I'm in this fulfill, like I'm in a really good place now where I'm developing as a as a web specialist as well as having the, all of the joys and pressures and stress, but fun build a mind thing, which. Absolutely. So yeah, I've I feel like I've naturally just gotten to this position where I'm super fortunate that things are come to where is probably, yeah. W it just fits with my personality and really really feel like I've yeah, go some great direction, which is what I was looking for. All those years ago when I initially spoke to you. Yeah.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 31:51

Being in business development and sales for many years now in, in this space, in the tech space,

Tom Youngs: 31:57

I can

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 31:57

tell Tom you're a confident guy. You're great at networking. You're great with people. Do you feel that those skills and talents, would say you're in flow when you're using those those natural talents. Do you think that in dentistry that they perhaps what may be were underutilized, in this clinic and in Somerset and thinking about that point, if that is true Do you feel that's an important factor in looking for and testing new careers? Like just being aware of those kinds of innate abilities and natural talents or things that you're uniquely good at?

Tom Youngs: 32:38

Yeah. I think if I look back to that point, when when I was making, I made that decision that I wanted to go into another career when it hit me like a truck, part of that was as well was I was feeling very stifled as a just as a person. Being a clinician is really tough because you. You never really able to be yourself. You have to constantly have this this professional mask on and not afraid to say it. I'm a guy that loves the occasional swear word. I'm I have a pretty bad sense of humor. And I found it really stifling. I found it really hard that I couldn't really, I couldn't be myself and. That was probably the best feeling was in that first job that I had working in this kind of like really smaller little compact tech company, which was like a big family, 30 people. And all of a sudden it's like someone literally just popped this bubble and it was, Oh my God, there's the rest of the world. It's, that's how it felt. It genuinely felt. And. That job for, I had it for two years was just really made me feel like I know I've, it made me feel a couple of things. It made me feel like shit, I really have started from scratch. That was the one thing. It was like, it was, Oh my God. Now all of this effort and this sunk cost and all of this education that you've done for like nearly nine years, It means nothing. And so that was that was one realization that, okay, you really are starting from the bottom. But the second one was just this fulfilling a freedom just genuinely that's how I can this is the best way I could describe it, like someone and just burst his bubble. And all of a sudden the rest of the world was there and open to me. Whereas this might be something that the other people are listening to medical in the medical field. I'm sure. Other fields as well, very much feels like this bubble that you are trapped, not trapped, but once I was able to be out the outside of it, I could see a lot clearer. And I was just like, happy. I was just like, Oh my God, here's everyone else. I know it was meeting people like you. And it was so exciting. That was like, that was probably one of the things, which is no, you are doing the right thing. And yeah, and I know I have a lot of people that did the, when they hear that I made that joke. They do, they're like you pretty brave. You're like really brave that you made this this jump. And yeah, it was a really super, super tough thing, but there were a time there was, unless I still have this, but yeah, it was really feeling like here's the rest of the world that isn't, that was an overwhelmingly. Positive feeling tough. So that's really what like gave me the yeah, give me the feeling that I was doing the right thing.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 35:29

Yeah. It's what I find really interesting about you Tom is just how determined you were to find this a path that would work for you. Like you spent six months with our coach really

Tom Youngs: 35:43

exploring all

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 35:44

these different options, speaking to so many different people. You were working two, three jobs at one point to tech startups and the dentistry. Lot of sacrifices with a lot of unknowns as well, but there's something that was driving you in through that whole process of. I can make this work or I there's there was something in you that was driving you to actually do this. What was your, what was your aim? What were you going for? Was it happiness? Was it fulfillment? Was it freedom? What, when what do you think it was that actually drove you? Cause there's a lot of people. Would not do what you've done. I have to say they, they wouldn't, either their family might have been in the medical profession and they, then that's an excuse of, Oh, I have to be in this profession, even if I don't like it, or, they've had those sunk costs of training and they're like, I can't get it back now. But there was something in you that was like, I've got to do something different because of what was that? What was that? Driving force that difference. That makes a difference between you and someone that is in a career that just is not fulfilling them.

Tom Youngs: 36:53

Yeah, I think I think because I had those experiences of working in a practice and working as a as a clinician It really started me. It started getting me quested for the first time questioning. Okay. But being a bit more philosophy philosophical. So asking those questions okay will, am I happy? Am I fulfilled? Am I excited? Am I yeah. All of those things that you mentioned and. It was the first time I'd done that I haven't, literally had spent Hamad myself a night, nine years straight exams, and I never had the chance to take a step back, take a breath and be like, okay, what is it actually that it isn't. And yeah, I have to look back at the four hour work week for being the, the first thing that really. Made me start thinking about that. And again, the most around the time being super precious and as well as health. So like health is something that I consider probably up there as my biggest priorities is without health time means nothing. Times nothing. Those are the two biggest priorities in my life. So that's what w helped me has now helped me guide me to be like, okay what are the the things in life that are gonna allow you? What kind of path is going to allow you to have peak up peak happiness peak health peak time freedom. And this was part of exactly why meeting you were so good. And why Michael wanted us to be introduced to this was that you helped help me appreciate that. That was possible. But yeah, that was there. It was all of those things. It was just like, okay, I want to be healthy. I want to be have freedom or to be financially free. I want to be fulfilled, but I also recognize that I really do enjoy working hard. So that's something that, that I was like, ah, I love chat. I love challenging myself. The journey was just test trying stuff out and testing stuff out. And yeah, I feel like I've had the chance to do that. But yeah, that's I question those things all the time and it's funny cause we're starting that time between Christmas and new year at the moment where I've spent the last couple of days really starting to think about think about what my goals for next year are going to be. And yeah, this it's just keep it, put it into the base, strip it down to the basics. What is my health going to be? What do I want my health to look like? What do I want my what did I, what do I want my relationships to look like? What do I want my happiness to look like? And the, the answer is just coming up with some sort of a strategy that helps you. Make sure you take all of those boxes. So that's what I'm working on.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 39:24

Yeah. Zooming out of your life rather than being caught up in it and looking at the bigger picture, looking at, Hey, what is actually important to me? Health is important. Okay. And freedom is important to you and running your own business and all of those kinds of things. And so you, you sat, as you said, you sat plan to, to at least move in that direction. So you

Tom Youngs: 39:49

have more chance

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 39:50

of being able to fulfill all of those highest priorities in your life, and then testing, testing things out until you, like you're on now this career path that you're really happy with my final question, Tom. I call someone that's burning from within someone that's pretty living with passion. They're passionate about what they do. They have a purpose, they have a real meaning in their work or in their life. And they and they have balance as well. And they balance time for their career for their family. For. Whatever's important to them health. You mentioned as well, so having passion, purpose, and balance is a magic formula for burning from within not burning out and hating your career, but actually, having the fuel inside you to keep going and loving life, what would you say is the one thing that's made the biggest difference for you, Tom, to burn from within.

Tom Youngs: 40:44

I think I wouldn't be being able to answer this question a year ago. If I'm going to be completely honest with you the, I think purpose has been, is the most for me at the moment is the kind of the leading light in that in, in that triangle. And that comes from that kind of that deep. Ambition to start my own business. And I have I feel really proud that I've managed to launch a business, which I feel is aiming towards something that is virtuous. And that has that I can't tell you how much that inspires me. And but I didn't have that, last year didn't have that. And I definitely I wouldn't have been able to answer that question. If you had asked me ask me now, I think I was still in a searching kind of within the searching phase, but now I do really feel like I'm at a point where I've got something that I can focus on something that is fulfilling and virtuous, and I'm having a lot of fun, loads of fun doing it. And it's never hard work, which is, that's the thing that everyone always. Bangs on about, is it do something that doesn't feel like work and it's I've never, I'd never found that. And so now I've got a little bit of a taste of it and, sure. There's, I'm having to do stuff that I don't always enjoy, but I'm still finding this this, the challenge of doing learning lots of different, new things learning lots of stuff. That's the thing that, that keeps me from, kids who burning from within is just the constant pursuit to learn. Yeah, that's probably it

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 42:15

love it. Absolutely love it. Yeah. And yeah, I think, taking yourself back to, after you read the four hour work week, there's, there was always this purpose of entrepreneurship and, wanting to run your own business. And so that was the underlying purpose of huge direction of your life actually. Which kind of, you're like, okay, how do I do this tech startups? Who can I speak to? Where, who can I work for getting the right skills to to have that confidence. And now you're running around business and that, and now it's almost like your you're digging deeper into that purpose of okay, now I'm running my own business. What's the, what is the purpose that I really want to Explore in that business. And that's the fuel for you? I love it. Thank you so much, Tom was really sharing like your mindset of when you transition your cure, your decision behind it, how you managed your transition into that career. Things you think about now with hindsight that you might not have thought about before and and really what's helped you be happy to be fulfilled in your career and know that this is the right path. And it's super inspiring for other people to listen to this. Whether they're in the medical field or not, you've taken you've had big balls to make those brave decisions. And these, the, these principles that you've shared gonna put stabilizes on other people's career paths so that they can manage it a little bit. With a bit more confidence from that inspiration. So thank

Tom Youngs: 43:47

you very much. Thank you, mate. The offer is always there. If anyone would ever like to perhaps ask any questions. Cause I know it is a huge thing please do feel free to, I'm always happy to help out

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 43:59

the show. Yeah. I'm happy to put. If you're up for it, like your contact details or your LinkedIn or something on the show notes,

Tom Youngs: 44:07

absolutely love to be able to help out if anyone would have any questions.

Matt Garrow-Fisher: 44:13

what another inspiring interview. I really take from that story, the power of testing things out. If you have an idea of another career that you'd like to do, going out and getting experience, whether that's an internship contract role, volunteering part-time or full-time position going on a career path, you think you might love is the best way to really find out. And before that, speaking to people who are on paths that you want to be on, like Tom did early in his career change journey gives you the confidence and reassurance and sometimes the contacts to take that next step. If you want to book a free 20 minute consultation with me, if you're thinking about career change, but don't know which way to go next. Just go to burn from within.com forward slash call that CA double L and book a time convenient for you. I can point you to your next action step. And if you want to continue the support on your journey, I'll share options most relevant for your circumstances on how we can work together. And if you're a dentist doctor or someone who relates to Tom's story, please get in touch directly with Tom too. His contact details can be found on the show notes to this episode. In the meantime, as our last show of 2020 live with passion, purpose, and balance and burn from within in 2021.