Burn From Within
Burn From Within
An expert's perspective on executive career and lifestyle change - George McGehrin
I talk to George McGehrin who founded The McGehrin Group, a national executive search firm, now turning over eight figures a year after being in business for 20 years.
The McGehren Group mostly deals with leaders at the C-suite level (CEO, CTO, CFO, CIO) all throughout Europe, the US and South America.
As well as managing his recruitment firm, George also coaches leaders on both their branding for career and their career paths. He decided to start a business, literally at the unemployment office, waiting to learn how much his employment check would be after getting laid off back in the year 2000, 20 years ago.
In this interview, I pick this executive recruiter's brains on the job market now post Covid-19 and his incredible mindsets and principles for a career change at the executive level. We discuss:
- How George decided on the business he’s in now and what’s the risk of setting up a business versus taking the employment route
- How careers are like relationships and how to turn toxic ones into great lessons and opportunities
- Being in the right career ‘vehicle’ and how that can transform how happy and fulfilled you are
- How taking real responsibility for money management can alleviate your worries even when things like Covid and recession hit
- Being present with people, the value of time versus chasing more and more money
- Being in a financial prison even as a high-earning executive and how to restore balance in life
- 4 tips to shift your mindset so you approach jobhunting the right way during Covid
- How to pivot your skills into a new industry or a new career
- Getting 'The Unfair Advantage' in your job search
- The practice of building resilience
- What’s the one thing that makes George McGehrin burn from within?
More interviews, videos and programs to help you through career or life rebalance are available at burnfromwithin.com
Resources:
- McGehrin Group - if you are an executive looking for a new challenge or career, George and his team at The McGehrin Group have incredible connections and you will be impressed with their personal touch and expertise.
- George McGehrin's LinkedIn - the best way to speak directly to George about anything we discussed on the show. Just send him a message or connection request with a note saying you heard him on the Burn From Within podcast and he is very approachable and will aim to support you where he can.
- Ramit Sethi - the personal finance guru George spoke about in this episode that really helped him wake up to managing money in a new way. This contributed greatly to be in a strong position for when Covid-19 hit, where he actually was hiring not firing, unlike during the big recession of 2009 when George lost everything. Money management principles from this man Ramit Sethi was a huge factor in this step up to security.
[00:00:00] Take yourself back, George, 20 years ago, when you decided to start your business in the McGehrin group, which has now grown to really great success.
[00:00:09]it started when you were laid off and you're waiting for your, unemployment paycheck. There's a lot of, there's a lot of people, that are in that position now, COVID-19 is happened. There's been mass unemployment globally. it's, it's a very pressing issue for a lot of people listening.
[00:00:25]Decision to start a business and how to choose what business to go into [00:00:25]how did you make that decision George to start a business? when you're unemployed and also, how did you choose the business that you're in now? Executive search.
[00:00:37]George McGehrin: [00:00:37] So it's two great questions. the first thing was, so why was I didn't I never had the idea to start a business,
[00:00:44]It just wasn't, wasn't in the cards. So I'm literally, sitting and, sitting at the unemployment office and there's people next, left and right to me. And I'm thinking, this is terrible, but this is literally what I mean. It's I was literally thinking.
[00:00:59]look at all these, there's some really, there's some winners in this office. I was thinking this, I stopped myself and I realized, you know what, they're probably saying the same thing about me. I don't know if you've ever collected an unemployment check before, but the process like governmental, when they give you, it's just very slow.
[00:01:13] So you sit there for awhile. And I started to thinking, I was like, I'm here. And then you start looking at other people that are coming in and out and. And I'm thinking, I've done everything I was supposed to do. I went to these, decent universities and schools and I worked at these, pedigree companies.
[00:01:29] I've done everything like to the tech, like everything, My whole life. And I'm still sitting here, and then I started to evaluate risk. I'm not a big, I don't know. I'm not a huge numbers guy, but I was thinking, like me working, working for myself or working for somebody else.
[00:01:44]it's riskier to work for somebody else. Quite frankly, because in my situation, I moved to Miami three months into it. they closed, there was a German company, who decided to close down the Miami office. I hadn't done anything wrong. And I know it was out of a job and I realized, you know what, like if I'm ever going to fail again, I'd like to fail at least on my own terms,
[00:02:04]And I think it was probably, it might've been the first time that I just accepted that I was probably the problem, Because I was the one who was working for these companies and trading time for money and, I thought, how hard, like how hard could it be to start a business? It can't be that hard,
[00:02:17] I thought this, the guys in Germany, weren't that smart. They've got a business, like it's not, and, and then I saw the unemployment check and I thought, man, this is I'm already broke. I'm already broke unemployment checks. Aren't exactly. I could barely get by.
[00:02:30] And, I'm thinking, like at least if I'm going to fail, I want to fill my own terms, And I've always seen it that way. and this is the, this is how I see that a mathematical equation. I know it's a long answer, but if you work for a company and I'm not saying working for companies, a bad thing, but if you work for a company and you do great job, they give you a bonus.
[00:02:46]And they say, Hey, Matt, come back next year. Good job. It. If you don't do a great job, they say, Hey Matt, it was nice of you, thanks for coming and showing up, but we're not going to invite you back next year. if you have a company and you do a great job, right? You get paid very well for it.
[00:02:59] Usually, if you don't do a great job, then you're still in the, you're still in the street and you're still unemployed. Just like the guy who works for a company. So your risk is really the same. And, there's a mind shift. Change of people are so afraid. Like we're taught our kids not to do.
[00:03:12] We're taught to go get a job. And you were taught this too, right in England. You were taught this right. Go work for somebody. And get a job and that's what we're taught. We're not taught control your own time. Work with people you want to work with Dewey, do something you love, right? We're not taught that.
[00:03:27]we're just taught, Hey, go to school, go to university, go work for a company. And then you can, work for somebody else. And, the risk is literally the same. It's literally the same. So COVID, so now in 2020, you've got a lot of people that are unemployed. They're thinking, maybe I'll start over business and they're worried, will it work?
[00:03:42] Will it will not work. I've been doing this 20 years. I'm still worried. like tomorrow I'm worried if there's going to be any money coming in, like it's not the worry of does it work? Doesn't work. It is always a, is always an issue. So you need to just put that away. And focus on, focus on some of your core sort of skillsets.
[00:04:01] And, but that's, that's why I started the business. I literally got into recruiting because my plan was I'll find a job to pay for my new business. I'll be like a pre a freelancer And I walked in a bunch of these recruiting offices and I thought, okay, Like I could do this.
[00:04:15] This is, like this is a no brainer for me and that's how it started. So I literally walked into the career that I have, and, I don't know, I don't know. there's a, I might've met a Swedish guy and he said, George, you've got this life of like your, I D it must be a Swedish thing, but he said that like sailing on a trip sandwich, which is I always, it's like turning lemons into lemonade or.
[00:04:35] I just find these terrible situations and I turn it into just a little more optimistic, end result. So it's, I don't know. I like, life is short, you have to enjoy it. And I tell you it's terrible to work for somebody else that you don't enjoy it. So
[00:04:49]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:04:49] for sure. And, I'm just thinking about the point you raised.
[00:04:52]and I remember, I read a quote from you where you said. most successful businesses that were started and [00:05:00] continue to thrive for close to 20 years now were all mistakes turned into businesses. And this whole concept that you just raised, turning errors or, unfortunate circumstances into opportunities,
[00:05:13] George McGehrin: [00:05:13]
[00:05:13] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:05:13] how can you relate that to, People that are going through job loss or career change. cause a lot of people will feel that, if they're in the wrong job, particularly the wrong career, but they've made a mistake, how can they turn that into an opportunity and make that into a thriving new career or a thriving business.
[00:05:34]Careers being like relationships and how to turn a toxic one into an opportunity [00:05:34]
[00:05:34]George McGehrin: [00:05:34] And this is, and it's, and and careers very related to relationships. If you think about if you think about. great marriages, bad marriages, toxic relationships, healthy relationships, the career. there's a lot of, there's a lot of commonalities,
[00:05:46]Between a lot of these things. sometimes, I can tell you, I, I was, I'm on my second marriage, right? I've been married for a long time. Now I've got two kids. My first marriage was a disaster. Like no kids, thank God. But the first marriage was a disaster like disaster. Yeah, no.
[00:06:01] And at the moment you're like, Oh my God, this is the worst thing that's happening to me. And you're, this is terrible. And then you, later on you see it's a blessing, it's a blessing and, I'm a better partner, because I'm a better father, I'm sure I'm a better listener.
[00:06:15] And, I've got a, I've got an awesome, second marriage, Which is just the reality of my situation. But I think if you're, unemployed, sometimes it's not you, Sometimes it's that actual vehicle that you're in.
[00:06:26]This is a problem.
[00:06:27]Be in the right career vehicle - it could lead to a happy life [00:06:27]
[00:06:27] I see a lot of people they're unhappy. they love what they do. So take, I don't know, let's take a marketing person. they love being a marketer, but sometimes they're in the wrong company or in the wrong vehicle. So let's say they're marketing for a bank and maybe they hated bank environment, but they would love a startup,
[00:06:41]So I would say, besides. Changing, doing a whole one 83 60 sort of, flip-flop think about, I would probably get a list and by the way, this is, I don't know if a lot of your, I journal the hell out of things. And make a list of things you like about what you do for a living things you don't like and find a vehicle, right?
[00:06:59] Find a vehicle where you can expose some of the positives, I, I like what I do, because I get to help people. at the end of the day, it's not about the money. It's about the help I get to help people. And that's why recruiting and coaching and branding.
[00:07:08] And I literally get to see, even though they don't see it, I get to help the kid, their kids, and they, I get to make a difference in their lives. And that's why I like what I do. So if I were to not do this, I would do something else where I can help people,
[00:07:21]And, yeah, they're probably in the wrong vehicle. Get in the vehicle. Where we're where you can, you can thrive, because it's, unemployed. It's tough, but I can tell you usually, it's like a relationship. Usually the sun comes out after the storm, it's just a way things work out.
[00:07:35]Taking real responsbility to your money management so you can be crisis-proof [00:07:35]
[00:07:35] Second thing, I would highly recommend which people get stressed out about, they get stressed out about money, right? Because so the money thing it's tricky, but most people are paying the consequences. poorly managing their money. And that's why they're worried right. About being unemployed, because if I'm, I, to be fair, my version of COVID was in 2009 where I went from 50 people at my company, I had to literally fire everybody and went back to zero.
[00:08:01] So I lost everything. Lost two houses. I've lived the, that was my COVID experience. Wow. yeah. So I've been through that, right? But all of my errors, we're just being exposed. Because I didn't have enough money in my cash. I was, I was spending more than I was making.
[00:08:14]And, it was like, it was like, it was, I got to a point where I couldn't outsell my stupidity. So you need to take it and take responsibility. So if you're worried about being unemployed, it's probably because you have a cashflow problem. Think about how to create a better system,
[00:08:25]And, there's a great guy. His name is Rameet Stephie, R M R a M I T Sethi. He's a younger guy. He talks about, do you know him? Yeah, I started listening to every finance guru in 2009 from then on. And it's just, you have to think about your cash flow and savings and, But, number one is, get, make sure you're in the right vehicle.
[00:08:45] Number two is make sure you have you figure out some sort of financial system for next time, because this will happen again. It's gonna happen again, right? this time, this COVID, this is, we have an eight figure business recruiting, no one was hiring. but we were ready for that.
[00:08:59] I was ready for that since 2009, and I wasn't worried, I wasn't worried the branding businesses doing well, the coaching businesses doing well, but. the recruiting business is now picking up again, but I was able to sit on the sidelines for six months, pretty much, on the recruiting side, when a lot of the, my competitors went out of business, and, and I wasn't even worried.
[00:09:15]I've had a great life. The last, I hate to say it the last six, six, seven, eight months. But it's because the financial part is pretty solid, The third thing is, and this is, this is probably, the antithesis of what people tell you, but don't ask your friends, don't ask your mom, your dad, your brother, no, one's no one's doing that.
[00:09:32] You have to get up every morning and start. If you're gonna start your own business, you have to do it. It's not about anybody else. And eventually people get on board, and they have to, you know how it is Matt? It's you control your own life. And people have to get on board with what Matt wants to do in the day, not, what other people want.
[00:09:47] And I think that's a big thing. I see people, I see so many people that are in these jobs. They just totally, they just hate who they work for, where they work, their commute, The pay. It's just, it's so toxic, but you're [00:10:00] probably, pick the right vehicle.
[00:10:01] And, and I think that's 80% of it.
[00:10:04]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:10:04] I love that point about picking the right vehicle and also, you found this path of, I love helping people, right. And, and that's, that's kind of a purpose driven approach rather than I would say a lot of people, particularly executives, who've got to the top.
[00:10:22]a lot of those executives and, correct me if I'm wrong, they've pursued, status. maybe they've raised their ego a little bit. there's been a bit of a power trip. certainly a lot of people, trying to get the pay rises and the nice cars and the houses and all that kind of stuff.
[00:10:39]The importance of being present with people; the value of time over chasing more money [00:10:39]
[00:10:39]a lot of guests I've spoken to, who've been, six, seven figure executives. they've made a shift, in terms of when they've had a career change or significant job changes, at least, where they've realized that they've had the cars and the boats and houses and everything, but that's not enough.
[00:10:57] They realize that's not making them happy. And, Tony Robbins talks a lot about. Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the six human needs. there's a point where, executives get, they pass the level of significance where they're chasing money and status, and then they, looking at more impact and purpose and contribution in the lives.
[00:11:17] Do you witness that, a lot people, at the executive level, the people that you deal with, looking for more purposeful work and to make more of an impact rather than getting the pay rises.
[00:11:29] George McGehrin: [00:11:29] it's an interesting point I would say
[00:11:30] we're dealing with people that are making for $300,000 a year to four to 5 million. I call two weeks ago with somebody he makes about a million bucks a year. So main dollars is a million dollars a year.
[00:11:40] And, I said, Hey, there's a, there's an opportunity. It pays like $600,000. do you wanna hear about it? And he literally said it. Just not going to cover. I need, like I need to be at the 1.52. So what does that mean? It means that he's making his million bucks a year.
[00:11:55] He's probably spending the million. And that's a sad, it's, that's a sad, point to get in life, Where. You're always chasing the next carrot, And I'm more like you I'd rather have a quality life. I have a nine year old and a six year old.
[00:12:07]
[00:12:07] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:12:07]
[00:12:07] George McGehrin: [00:12:07] I asked my nine year old said, Hey, am I, a good dad?
[00:12:09]and he's yeah, you're a great dad. And I said, why am I a good dad? And then literally he said, you're always home. you spend time with us, like when you're home, you're not on your phone, you're just, you're like, you're, he pretty much just said, Hey, you're present.
[00:12:20]you go to a coffee shop where you go to a pub or, and you see people friends.And they're just like, they're there like this with their phone, And they're just, they're not present, or, you go someplace and everyone's with their phones, taking pictures.
[00:12:32] They're not present, you go to Machu Picchu in Peru, beautiful place. And you've got these people that are just there. they're not present with the moment. And I think the executives I deal with, they're so busy chasing things. they're missing their kids.
[00:12:44] They're missing. it's amazing. It's not worth it. In my opinion. It's just not worth it. you can't, you're not going to die right with it. you can't, you can give it, you're going to give it to somebody else. just read obituaries of people that have done really well financially.
[00:12:55]and it will be a half a page on how great the guy was or girl and how many properties they bought. and then it will say one small, insignificant line, father of two, I want the other arbitrary. I want the awesome,
[00:13:08]Like had a great life and then the line would be had a business or two and, he was able to feed his kids, that's what I want. I think money is the easiest commodity in the world. you can go tomorrow to a pub and we'll do a pushup and somebody will give you a pound.
[00:13:21]so you can get money. it's just, what do you do with it? And how do you buy time? And time is the element like time and Tony Robins preaches the time thing more than the money thing, but, and, that to me is the more important thing at the time.
[00:13:32]Being in an executive's financial prison and how to restore balance in life [00:13:32]
[00:13:32] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:13:32] and talking of time, George, I think you talked in previous podcasts, I've listened to a view about, being in a financial prison and, your living to work, basically. how. Do you restore balance in life if you're in that position?
[00:13:47]does it have to be, I need to get a new job or are there other ways to do that? have you witnessed that from some of the clients that you've worked with?
[00:13:57]George McGehrin: [00:13:57] I think, and I think you, and you've interviewed a lot of guests who talk about this. They need to have some sort of crisis moment,
[00:14:02]Where they decide, what. there's a pivot point. And unless they hit that pivot point, there's really. sometimes it's, there's a death or there's illness or they lose a job. Or they're in the unemployment line or, you had a guest where, his buddy, passed away.
[00:14:16] It was, the guy who wrote about the a hundred, a hundred things to do in your life. Yeah. just awesome interview, by the way. I, I learned a lot from thank you for that, because I learned a lot from that interview. and I was thinking about things that I need to do,
[00:14:28]Like in my life. And there's things that I still need to do. but unless they have some sort of pivotal point, It's really hard to. say, Hey, they're there. we're so brainwashed, we're systematically brainwashed the way the system is the system rewards money, it rewards, brand names rewards, those things.
[00:14:43] And people look up to that when it's not the most important thing in life. It's I don't know. I drive a German sports car, right? It's a nice car. it's a nice car. And I promised myself if I'm in business 20 years, Then I'll get a German sports car.
[00:14:53] I'm not gonna drive a Honda anymore. Or, so that's what I, that's what I did It's like a 20 year gift for myself and I don't even own [00:15:00] the car, lease it by the way. So it's a, like it's, it's not my car. So I'll park in, I'll pull in someplace and usually they'll say, somebody will say, Hey man, nice car man.
[00:15:07] Nice car. And I always respond with, it's not my car. Like the bank owns it. Like it's not, I don't own the car, So you have to be understanding that this is it's just material nonsense. And chasing it is silly. So I think it needs some sort of pivotal point in your life where you say what's important.
[00:15:22]And, and that could be on the negative side too. There's a lot of people that are in these relationships where you're like, I'm in this terrible situation. I need to separate and do something else with my life. And, you, you've had that moment as well. So you could work for a bunch of companies and put, does that make you happy?
[00:15:36] Does that make Matt happy? Probably not. And it's you need a, you need something that says, okay, I'm done, I need to do something with my life.
[00:15:44] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:15:44] Totally. Yeah. I just noticed that pattern of, like you said, people reach a threshold, they reach a breaking point and then they change.
[00:15:51]and I think, just kind of reflecting on what's important in life asking that question. if I died tomorrow, what would I want to do more of that, those kinds of questions? Yeah. they can help spark, more balance, rather than having to go through a painful breakup or, a death in a, in a friend or family, et cetera, or losing a job.
[00:16:12]4 tips to shift your mindset so you approach jobhunting the right way during Covid [00:16:12]
[00:16:12]so I want to talk a little bit about, COVID you're an executive search. speaking to lots of companies, lots of, candidates who are looking for work. I'm sure. what do you think has been, a good mindset to have? now we're kind of in COVID there's tons more people looking for jobs.
[00:16:32]probably less jobs in the market, certainly in some industries anyway. what's a good mindset to have, in order to rise above that and actually find opportunities and work with recruiters like you.
[00:16:46] George McGehrin: [00:16:46] So I would say you have to think about, it's not going to come to you.
[00:16:49] You have to go get it right. That's number one So you have to just make sure that you control your own destiny with what you're going after. you have to call them. They're not gonna call you. and a lot of people are, have been spoiled, right?
[00:16:57] you have to go, you have to go get it. number two, and I don't know if you've seen this as well, with working with folks, with their mind shifts and how they change.
[00:17:04]but exercise is a big deal. it's a mental relief, and not a physical relief. And, if you don't have some sort of activity in your life, you'll find that by bringing in activity, you'll actually, your career will do better.
[00:17:18]just a lot of things will improve. So if you're trying to figure out, like, how do I fix my career? fix you first, but a lot of it is just physical activity. go for a run, go for a walk. If you can't run, go, jumping a bicycle.
[00:17:28]A lot of things you can do, And, I'm convinced that the fact that I practice, sports and I'm active, I'm convinced that's the reason I've been semi, quote unquote successful in businesses, And, that's, that's the second thing I, and I would say the third thing.
[00:17:43]reading books and listening to books you get these experts, Tony Robbins. Great. Like he's a great example, right? No, you can. you get these guys that are worth, just tons of money and they've got lots of experience for $30 and now it's even cheaper with audible and you can get the bar to them and they're, they become your coach for eight hours, for an audio book.
[00:18:03]this is a tip by the way. I don't know about you, but I read listened to roughly 20 to 50 books a month. Wow.
[00:18:10] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:18:10] 50 bucks a month. That's
[00:18:11] George McGehrin: [00:18:11] incredible. but I'll preface it with,I use blink, I guess I use, for example, I use audible. when I go for a run, I'll put an audio book on, so if I'm walking if I'm driving it's constant,
[00:18:24]So I'm always, if I'm showering, I'm listening to it. I have an audio book in the, like a Bluetooth, speaker system. So I'm constantly listening to books, but most of the successful people, they're reading quite a lot. They're pretty well-read and, I think that's the third thing is you need to always be sharpening that tool, the sort of the saw,
[00:18:41]And, and the fourth thing is, I preach this and some people have a hard time with this, It's easier to ask for favors when you've been giving favors for, 10, 15 years. when you're adding value and you're just, you just Hey, you genuinely want to help somebody.
[00:18:53] It's just easier later on, if you need some help. And, I don't know if you want to share what we talked about before the show. I said, Hey, I've got some people I'd like you to meet.
[00:19:01]It'd be good for you. And you just have to give before you get right. And that's a big thing that people forget, they're very selfish they just don't give a lot of themselves.
[00:19:09] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:19:09] Yeah. I really admired that about you. Like as soon as we started talking, you immediately offered me something, Quite a valuable set of connections and, and it was really genuinely, offered as well.
[00:19:22]and, I appreciate that and I can see how, that approach to developing relationships is obviously you've found a lot of success of your purpose of helping people and growing the McGahren group. so yeah, I feel that it really does make a difference giving first.
[00:19:37] George McGehrin: [00:19:37] and there's two types of candidates, by the way, when you talk to for opportunity, this there's two types of people.
[00:19:41] There's the Mimi may get me a job may go there. they're terrible to deal with. they're just there just in general and there's other folks will say, Hey, George, I've got a friend of mine or Hey, if you need anything, give me a call. and those are the guys that you try to help out later on, because they're genuine and with their service.
[00:19:57]so I would say, be very careful, with [00:20:00] asking for things when you're not yourself, giving it first. And I see that in a lot of these folks, they make pretty decent money and they're selfish with their time as well as their skillset.
[00:20:09]And, that's a, but I think, I think you brought up a great topic. It's what's more important, right? The money part or the life part. And. I'm a fan of the life part 110% of the time. There's no question the money is silly. the money is silly and you get to a point where you're just chasing something.
[00:20:25] That's ridiculous. it's just, it's a silly,
[00:20:28]How to pivot into a new industry or career [00:20:28]
[00:20:28]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:20:28] let's talk about skillsets and, and pivots as well. there's, some people that, have been on the same career path for years, many years, sometimes decades. and they just feel they want something completely different.
[00:20:40] how could you advise, executives in that position, on how to transfer some of their skills perhaps to a different industry? we're witnessing, for example, the hospitality industries is. in many countries around the world, really suffering.
[00:20:56] There's some very talented executives in those industries, in the travel industries that might be out of a job. and how can they pivot their skills perhaps into new industries, new careers, and thrive in new areas.
[00:21:12]George McGehrin: [00:21:12] this is a question that I ask myself a lot is, what are the top two or three core principles of what am I good at?
[00:21:18]And. and I try to, from a timestamp, when I try to focus on time management piece, I try to just do things that I'm good at. And everything else I delegate. That's the kind of way I do things. let's say you're a salespersonin a hotel industry.
[00:21:30]and you genuinely like sales, then you need to think about, first of all, the did you like the industry? Do you like hospitality? Do you like helping people? But I think if you're going to pivot, I would say stick with your core, right? Your core skillset.
[00:21:42] Because when you get away from that, you get into trouble, and, I'm a decent, my instinct for service type related businesses is really, is pretty solid. But I'd be a terrible, if I were to just say how I'm going to invest in a pub and start a pub,
[00:21:57]That's not my, I might be great, but the people part of it, but the actual running of the business is not, it would be a disaster and we'll just lose. I'll, it won't work. So I think use your user core skillset. Everybody has one amazing, I guess they call it a superpower.
[00:22:11]And use that superpower, use that amazing thing you do. and think about how to use it in a different organization. I would say the second thing, if you're not sure if you're going to do it, then maybe, beta tested, right? Like you don't need to buy the cow, to have the milk you can just so you know, if you're not sure if you like, I don't know, let's say computer programming, take a course and try to get a client, and maybe you realize you don't like it right.
[00:22:37] And, I would say tested first as well. I think testing is an important part of, before you buy into this and give up your, before you give up the farm, I would test things to see if you actually like it. Cause people, it's one concept, people say, I want to have a business.
[00:22:51]I wanna start a business. They've a lot of people don't have any idea what a business means. business means. Monday is the same as Sunday. I think when you start out, Monday is the same as Sunday. Tuesday is the same as a Saturday. you're borrowing your own money to pay other people.
[00:23:05] If you even have people on your team, you're, it's a nonstop thing and people think, Oh, it's like this romantic idea about running a business. It's not like that, you and I were talking 20 years into it. I've had 16 years where it was like, this the last four for myself and my company had been amazing, but it took me 16 years to figure out how to, how to run my company.
[00:23:24]it's absurd. If you think about this and the patients, you need to have that to have, to be able to hang out for 20 years is a lot. So it's, I would say test things before you do it. That's probably, I was pretty ignorant to the business, starting a business, but if I could do it over again, I'd probably test it to see if I liked it or not.
[00:23:40] And, then I would decide what to do, but I would say, you don't have to go all in. You can go, 30% in deciding to like it. And then move on. It's it's like relationships, you're not gonna get married in the first day. maybe not, but I wouldn't, so
[00:23:52] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:23:52] yeah.
[00:23:53] Yeah. that's super sound advice about testing and actually, I recommend that To clients as well to actually speak to people in those businesses, those kinds of fields, in those industries, and actually get a sense of what the people are like, what kind of, rural skills you need and what it's really like to run that business or be in that job, doing these kinds of information or interviews.
[00:24:16]of I've actually asking people, Hey, what is it like, do you mind if I have a coffee with you or can we have a virtual chat for a few minutes? I'd really value, your input. and talking of that, approaching, people networking, to find new jobs and, or even to start approaching employers, what would you say is some.
[00:24:37]good advice in terms of how to approach networking for people that are maybe quite nervous about it, or not quite sure how to do it because there is an approach now where there's so many, people putting their resumes. in piles of inboxes of employers, rather than property aren't even seen, what can people do, [00:25:00] maybe networking, maybe something else, to get to the top of the pile and actually,
[00:25:03]George McGehrin: [00:25:03] be seen, right?
[00:25:05]Getting 'The Unfair Advantage' in your job search [00:25:05]
[00:25:05] So I call this the, you need to get on the unfair advantage, right? I don't think I've shared this in other podcasts, but I, in my team, on my team, we call this the unfair advantage, right? Where it's. it's and by the way, as a candidate, there's an 85% chance that somebody will find their next job through six degrees of separation.
[00:25:23]That's the statistics of just how things work. So you need to think about. creating networks, but that's really statistically. That's how you're gonna find your job. The response rate. You talk about the, sending out applications and resumes and CVS and things.
[00:25:37] I think statistically there's a 2% response rate, so it's pretty much yeah. Now, like it's yeah. It's that's insane. Wow. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah. It's not a great, it's not a great use of time. and if you think about this, the idea of like email, click, email, and then somebody gives you a job it's pretty difficult.
[00:25:55]the best way is through relationships. And you need to think about, reverse engineer it. So let's say there's a lead someplace to delete it. I don't know Barclays. So there's a lead a Barclays for a role you didn't think about who do I know that works there that used to work there?
[00:26:08]is there Somebody that I went to university with their school with, you have to really think about the unfair advantage. and so you need to use tactics like that. You're much better doing that than applying to the Barclays thing online. listen, I'm a fan of HR.
[00:26:21]to some extent, but HR in general keeps folks like me in business, because they're not that efficient. And. literally I run a recruiting business because of HRS inefficiency, thinking about that. and the whole industry is, is, it's pretty lucrative because of HR.
[00:26:37] Doesn't always, and it's that, they just, they don't check the box and you just don't get hired, And I've seen so many great people that have said, Hey, George, I've got this great resume, great CV, LinkedIn's terrific. I just don't, I'm not getting any love, what do I do?
[00:26:49] And then I go back to, let's talk about your activity. Let's talk about who you're talking to, how many people you're talking to, the math behind it. And they said, yeah, but I'm applying to this, I've applied to 83 jobs. And I tell them, just forget the internet, don't worry about the internet, worry about the people.
[00:27:04] And people give other people trumps. It's just the way life works. but that's what I think. People, we get confused with the internet and tools like LinkedIn and we forget. That's the whole purpose of this is for people, right? it's the people a connection.
[00:27:18] So you need to really figure out how to expose that and exploit that and get that unfair advantage. all of our recruiting clients, by the way, I would say 95% of the recruiting clients we have are based on some sort of unfair advantage. Where I knew somebody, I helped out somebody else.
[00:27:34] I helped out a brother of a brother, And then I was referred to this club through there to a recruiting client, or I helped the person with the coaching. And then we landed a recruiting contract with them, from the corporate side. most of the business that we do is because of an unfair advantage, right?
[00:27:48] Because I'm just some guy from the McGahren group that nobody ever heard of, 30, 40% team. there's, There's larger companies in mine. But how do I get these? Lenny's you know, like the Pepsi's a client of ours, right? Cause we've got Pepsi, we've got, we've got all of these major brands, how do I, how does a guy like me get that contract?
[00:28:05]I get it because I know somebody. And that's, you need to think about really how to play that game. Cause that's what it is.
[00:28:10] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:28:10] Awesome. yeah, connections you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with and, getting more of those connections will elevate you to a path you want to be on.
[00:28:21] For sure. Yeah. I totally see that.
[00:28:23]George McGehrin: [00:28:23] it's exactly that I'm going to name drop here, but I mentioned to you of I'm going to, I'm going to pass you on to the people at mind Valley, right? They're doing awesome stuff. that's. that's a connection.
[00:28:32] You probably wouldn't have it. You know what I mean? And that's what you and I are talking. So it's, that's how you get the unfair advantage. You're going to have the unfair advantage because you're covering you cover for, and then now, Matt walks in with the unfair advantage and that's how you build a career, a business, a lot of things.
[00:28:47]And, that to me, I think, is people forget about that. They always forget about that part. they're so tied into this internet thing. rather than the people part of it.
[00:28:56]The practice of building resilience [00:28:56]
[00:28:56] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:28:56] I'm very curious about, your resilience George, because you've been running this business for 20 years.
[00:29:03] it was a struggle, for the first good few years. so there's a real level of resilience within you. no doubt. And it's very, I'm very curious because, I was reading some of your interesting facts about you. you've run a number of ultra marathons.
[00:29:22]all around the world and the first ultra marathon you did was, you'd never done even a marathon before. I think the most you'd run was 20, 21 K or something like that.
[00:29:33] George McGehrin: [00:29:33] And you went straight into an
[00:29:34] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:29:34] ultra marathon, which has ha how long has that, how many miles or kilometers was
[00:29:38] George McGehrin: [00:29:38] this?
[00:29:38] it was 80 kilometers. So it's 50 miles. Okay. Yeah. So 80 kilometers would trail, right? So it's trail, which is much more difficult than, through the mountains and things and yeah. So it's more difficult than just, a pay it's like a marathon, most marathons are run on pavement, right?
[00:29:52]
[00:29:52] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:29:52] Yeah, I know. And also I read about you being one of the, one of the world's worst deep sea fishermen.
[00:29:58] George McGehrin: [00:29:58] Again.
[00:29:59]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:29:59] that's, [00:30:00] practicing resilience. And you talked earlier about, your practice of sports and competing.
[00:30:05]and in sports, you're going to win some, you're gonna lose some, you've got to have grit to try and win the games. how can people practice, developing resilience and my thoughts around this from observing your. Actions over the years, to run your business for so long and be successful and grow it, stems from getting into these activities.
[00:30:25] These difficult actives is Dixie. Fishing is not easy.
[00:30:29] George McGehrin: [00:30:29]
[00:30:29] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:30:29] ultra marathons, definitely not easy. Is it a case of, putting yourself really out of your comfort zone and developing that discipline
[00:30:38] George McGehrin: [00:30:38] and I'll share something, but I haven't shared that much. But I used to live in, when I lived in Barcelona for a while, I was in Barcelona for years.
[00:30:45] And, I had a roommate, he was an older guy. so it was myself and two other roommates. It's like these two older guys. And he was just recently divorced, at the time. the Spanish law and he taught me how to speak Spanish. I would play chess with him every night. We'd play chess.
[00:30:58]his name is Juan. And, the, he had just gotten divorced that his ex wife had gotten remarried. And he was still forced to pay something like 50 or 60% of his paycheck to the, yeah. ex wife So he was depressed and it was, I was in my twenties.
[00:31:10] I was actually, I was 20. I just think I just turned 20. And, he just, he's going through a rough time. And I'll tell you that. it didn't turn out well at all. he committed suicide, and I wasn't there, but I, I came home one day and the police were there and they said, Hey, did did you know Juan?
[00:31:24] And I was like, did I know him, I know won. And then they told me the story, how he had taken his car and he just, he got to a point where. And he was in his, to me, he was like super old, but he wasn't in his fifties. which was not now, it's not old to me anymore, but, he got to a point where he just didn't really see any, I guess he didn't see the value of life.
[00:31:41] And I went through this almost a depression. I was sad. I don't know if you've ever dealt with suicide before or, and then folks, but it's, I just, I felt bad, and I would cry and one day I said, you know what, And this is not, I just said, you know what, I've got a whole life to live.
[00:31:53] Like I need to enjoy my part of life. I'm young, I've got another 60 years left, like why? and that was a big change for me talking about change. That was a big thing that said, I need to really enjoy life. Like I, whatever I do, I need to enjoy it because, and I started thinking about, mortality, right?
[00:32:10] Like that. So I've a lot of things I've done are driven around. I want to make sure that I have the best life possible. and it's, it's, people miss that, they work their whole life to retire when they're 65 70 when they're back and then they can't travel the world, travel the world now, go on a sabbatical, I don't know for a year, do things while you're healthy.
[00:32:27] the worst case scenario for me for the ultra marathon was okay. If I run it, And I don't finish it. I just don't finish it. there's no, there's no, there's nothing wrong with that. at least I tried.
[00:32:37] And, so I do a lot of things like that. like I, I'm not worried about the failure part of it. It's part of life. And at least I know that I'm trying, like I'm not going to have, I would have, should have when I'm 80 years old, if I make a dad, So I just think a lot of people, they don't do things because they're afraid they're going to fail.
[00:32:53]don't worry about the failure part. You might fail, but if you do good for you, at least you were, at least you had the guts to do it, or try, And, I think a lot of people miss that. So I have a lot, my I'm extremely conscious of that experience of what happened to me, and what happened to my friends and I have to, he got to a point where he just didn't, he didn't see the value of continuing on and enjoying life.
[00:33:11]And to me, it was a, it was a gift to have that. And he gave me a great lesson because I get, I'm conscious of that. you're hanging out at your parents' house, that's a blessing, right?
[00:33:20] Because 50 years, 40 years now, you won't be able to say that, and, I live across the street from my parents, by the way, my mom has dementia. My dad, my parents were older and we moved literally delivering right across the street from them. But that's an awesome thing, it's not gonna be forever.
[00:33:34] And, so that's a lot of the stuff that I did do is driven by the fact that I know that I don't have, I'm 45. what do I have another 40 years left? it's the first 45 has gone so quickly. so I'm trying to take advantage as much as I can very quickly. So a lot of things I do, if my business fails, it could fail tomorrow.
[00:33:49] I don't know. But. At least I'm in the arena. You know what I mean? Playing like I'm there. So it's okay to fail, that's how I see things. I think failure is great. Be honest with you. I think it's a good thing to be able to accept.
[00:34:01]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:34:01] I'm always fascinated by guests that have kids.
[00:34:04]and in terms of some of the principles that I guess that you want to instill in your kids, around failure around resilience, like how do you teach that? How do you, how do you give them that grit? do you get them to, do sports or run alongside you and ultra marathon?
[00:34:23] George McGehrin: [00:34:23] Yeah. so the, sometimes they come running with me, they actually renovate the, they're big, I mean their football, soccer, football, their fans, So they play, he's the older one loves the premier league. it just is all about the premier league ahead.
[00:34:33] Yeah. So I don't know if you're primarily guy, but he's all about, so the first thing that I wasn't taught this as a kid. I wasn't, I didn't grow up with any, I didn't grow with money, so I didn't. the first thing I've taught them is how to spend money and how to use money.
[00:34:46]Because that's a, that's something I wasn't taught. And I think that's a generational thing that I can save. I can help their kids. And they're not going to have that. So they understand it's I've preached them about the red meat for meat Steffi and, being able to have money [00:35:00] saved for accidents.
[00:35:00]So you're able to always do things. So the first thing is money and money is an important thing in life. Money buys you time, right? so that's the first thing. The second thing is, I just want them to try to do the best they can. so my kids now they're at like this sort of co this hybrid learning, thing in school and my one son he's, he was doing it.
[00:35:18] He was doing okay. and I said, Hey, Christian, his name is Christian. how are you doing? I'm looking at your grades here. it's. And Micah, how are you finding school? He said, Oh, it's so easy. it's simple. like it's not hard at all. and then I told him, I said, you know what?
[00:35:31] Like at the end of the day, you're cheating the system, if you're going to get, he's getting 80, so one to a hundred, he's getting 85, he was going 85. And I said, you're cheating the system. I'd rather have you get 85, trying as hard as you can. Then just getting an 85, knowing that you're coasting, and you need to, so I focus on not trying to beat the system,
[00:35:48]There's a lot of coasters out there that always trying to beat the system and I don't know. if you're going to give it a hundred percent, be all in, and just do stuff and, sorry, I'm trying to instill that in them. it's and the third thing is I'm trying to teach them about, sometimes, kids, they don't want to do things cause they're afraid,
[00:36:02]And I'm trying to teach them mindset thing, the mindset is important of I'm gonna wait, I'm gonna lose, it's some kids that go into things thinking during the loop, like you can't live that way. So it's, I don't know. it's a tough thing. I don't know kids change or you'll see when you have kids.
[00:36:15]they change and the personalities are different. And my one son is super introvert. He's just an introvert, the younger ones, like crazy extrovert, So you teach them. Different things. but it's the idea of control in your own time in something, it sounds like a fantasy, you hear this everywhere, right?
[00:36:35] You hear this, you see this on Instagram and ought to be an entrepreneur. And, it's not like that, but if you can control your own time, you've won you're doing pretty well for yourself, but you can decide today what I'm going to do. and that's, a big thing, for people.
[00:36:48] So I'm trying to teach them to do things that will let them control their time.
[00:36:51] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:36:51] Awesome. I love those insights of what people would advise their kids. Cause it's, it's from a life of learning a life of experience and giving that to the next generation and, greater to give it to our listeners as well today.
[00:37:04]
[00:37:04] George McGehrin: [00:37:04] you'll see when you have kids, there's no textbook or there's no rules I think one of the mistakes some parents make is that they think that their kid is the smartest, the brightest, the fastest, I don't think that about my kids.
[00:37:13]I'm realistic, I think it, but I think it's, you need to give your kids, decent values, make sure they understand, the value of people and treating people correctly. they're pretty, well-traveled, they've traveled quite a lot. So it's, they've seen other things as well.
[00:37:25] Which is good, but I have to be very careful with them so that they don't become off this spoiled. Because they technically can have anything they want. And I'm very, my wife and I are very careful that they, they, to be fair, they live like middle-class kids, like a normal middle-class normal, they don't the younger one.
[00:37:39] Where's all the, where's the sort of the trainers from the, from the older on and a lot of hand-me-downs and. And they're, they, they're pretty balanced and we're making sure that they don't, lose that because it's an important, it's important thing to have, and, just to be a balanced person.
[00:37:54]
[00:37:54] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:37:54] Yeah. That's my last question, George, where can people find, you get, maybe get in touch with you after this episode, and also, who are the kind of candidates, or companies as well that you can help, employ or get hires for?
[00:38:10] George McGehrin: [00:38:10] so we've got a couple of actually, we've got a couple of different bits, right?
[00:38:13] But the best way is probably LinkedIn, right? If you just Google George McGahren LinkedIn, I've got like 30,000 connections, but they could send me a message on LinkedIn. that's the, probably the best way. I'm everywhere. I'm going to Instagram, everything else. But LinkedIn is from a professional standpoint is probably the best, the best way.
[00:38:28]we're mostly dealing with what types of people. we're dealing with executives right on the, on the job, front on the branding front, which is like the CVS and LinkedIn's, we're dealing with entrepreneurs, business folks as well as executives. and thenwe've got a coaching business, mostly it's executives.
[00:38:44]or entrepreneurs that are starting a business. And then the last one of the other business we just started is actually, we're going to start booking people actually on interviews on podcasts. So let's say you're not the burner. So we're going to book folks on between 24 to 48, interviews.
[00:38:58]it's based on my experience because I've been on like 60 to 70 shows in the last three months I've
[00:39:02] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:39:02] seen. It's incredible.
[00:39:04] George McGehrin: [00:39:04] Yeah. And
[00:39:05] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:39:05] that's a super useful service. I'll be looking for that.
[00:39:08] George McGehrin: [00:39:08] Yeah. So w we did that for ourselves internally and, we priced it out and I was like, this is a, there's a lot of people that would just love a turnkey solution where he just, you pick your shows and then, you're on 24 to 48 shows.
[00:39:21] It's great for the brand. you know this, if you Google, like when I Google the, all your shows show up, it's great for the brand. If you're a business person and a social proof as they call it. So we've got that business, we just launched that. so I don't know, it's just, but they could, if they're interested about any of those four services, they could send me a message on LinkedIn, just, Hey, George, I heard you're, how do I get hooked up with the podcast thing?
[00:39:39] Or how do I get hooked up with, the branding thing or the other thing is, they don't need to pay me to be a contact, like I'm not, they could just send me a message. Hey, I've got this problem. I heard you on XYZ podcast. can we talk, and I'm.
[00:39:52]I'm pretty easy with my time, like I, if I can help somebody out, it's always comes full circle. they can send me a message. I tell people, you don't need to pay me to, for me to help you. like you can just ask [00:40:00] me questions and I'll answer the questions, right?
[00:40:01] Like it's not, sometimes people think that they need to engage me in a service to be able to help them. It's not like that.
[00:40:06] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:40:06] it comes back down to this purpose of yours. You love helping people
[00:40:10] George McGehrin: [00:40:10] I'm going to save you a lot of grief.
[00:40:11] If you have a choice between kids or not, kids, don't do the gunk. Don't have kids.
[00:40:15]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:40:15] We'll see. We'll see. I'll let you know if I
[00:40:17] George McGehrin: [00:40:17] have one.
[00:40:20]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:40:20] we'll put, George's, contact details in the show notes. So you can get in touch with George that way. my final question, George. Definitely. I see you as someone that lives with passion, with all this stuff you do around the world, the ultra marathons, deep sea fishing.
[00:40:36]my
[00:40:37] George McGehrin: [00:40:37] next thing is I've just started flying planes. That's my next
[00:40:39] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:40:39] thing.
[00:40:42] George McGehrin: [00:40:42] actually, that's the next couple of weeks I'm gonna start learning. So that's a thing. Yeah.
[00:40:47] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:40:47] Succinct resilience with, with another challenge there for sure. so yeah, live with passion. Definitely. You've got the very purposeful life helping people.
[00:40:55]and it seems you have a really good balance. You've got time for people. You've got time for your kids and your loved ones. you seem you've got a good life balance. I call that, living with passion, purpose, and balance to burn from within, not burning out, but actually it's all coming from guiding you.
[00:41:12] What is the one thing you think that's made the biggest difference, George in your life to burn from within,
[00:41:19]George McGehrin: [00:41:19] and I'm going to show you, this journal it's still, you hear it. the journaling thing is amazing. it's hard to do it initially, right? It's not natural, but I, and it's not consistent initially, but then you get into this practice of journaling and writing down your thoughts and it doesn't have to be at all coherent.
[00:41:35]Like it just be this. This rambling on of just, but when you go back and you read, it's really interesting to read, who Matt was three months ago, like directly actually read who you were. And three, two George was three months ago and you say, wow, I didn't, you know what I meant to do that?
[00:41:50] I never did that. And I, and then you started the journal thing. Thing has been amazing for me, right? The books, the books and knowledge, is it also to me really interesting, people say it all the time, listen, you can watch Netflix or you can read a book, write or listen to a book, And then the third thing is exercise, but I think journaling it's just a great, it doesn't have to make sense when you journal and just write stuff down.
[00:42:10] I don't know if you journal do journal.
[00:42:12] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:42:12] I do. I do. I don't do every single day, but I do it, maybe every two days. Yeah.
[00:42:18] George McGehrin: [00:42:18] Yeah. So I didn't do today. I was meant to do it. I was supposed to do it today. I didn't do it today, but I, hopefully I will, I did it yesterday and sometimes it's a half a page and sometimes it's seven pages right up to stuff.
[00:42:28]And I it's, it's pretty low key. I've got a, a basic thing, there's no, it's just a basic book and then I've got a basic pen, and I put it and I just, I bring it with me as, if my phone is with me, the book is with me. Sometimes the phone's not with me and the books with me.
[00:42:40]I go on a bike ride, bring my journal, leave the phone at home. And then you're at a park and you just just start writing it just, I know it's been a peaceful thing. I'm trying to get into meditation and I don't know if you meditate, but I'm trying to learn. I'm having a hard time.
[00:42:52]I might be the words world's worst meditator as well.
[00:42:55] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:42:55] I did it, I did attend Dave passing their retreat, which I threw myself in at the deep end. So it was like almost no meditation to ultra marathon level meditation. So maybe you could try that.
[00:43:07] George McGehrin: [00:43:07] Did you like, did you love it?
[00:43:09] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:43:09] I did. It was a challenge. It was a challenge, but after I left I've I felt like really amazing for ages, but like months afterwards,
[00:43:17] George McGehrin: [00:43:17] that's amazing. and you learn things, You take away things that are that's amazing. Yeah. What's the name of the, what's the name of the, where are you at?
[00:43:26]Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:43:26] if you go to dama.org, there's a list of, the pastor centers around the world. I went to one in,
[00:43:32] George McGehrin: [00:43:32]
[00:43:32] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:43:32] Lampoon a city called Lambo. we did a 10 day, retreat. That's the kind of style of teaching. Actually, it's interesting.
[00:43:40]you say about journals. I probably shouldn't admit this. You're not supposed to journal in the, in the Vipassana retreat, but I snuck in a journal and I did, I had some amazing insights, that I wrote down. so yeah, I would say journaling for sure is incredible. Just don't tell them,
[00:43:56] George McGehrin: [00:43:56] don't tell people.
[00:43:58] Yeah, of course. Yeah. I want the a of course, that's an amazing 10 day, you invest in yourself. It's, like you, you're, you coach people as well, right? So you know that the fact that you invest in yourself, You have to, that's a tip too. I was gonna say, and I always tell, sometimes I tell, I tell people this, I'm like, listen, either invest, with me and, invest in something, but at the end of the day, you need to invest in somebody,
[00:44:18]And invest in yourself and, that's the best thing you can do with your money. it's literally take the money and you're spending it for yourself. And, like it's it just, you're, you spend 10 days on yourself and that changes the rest of your life. Right?
[00:44:30] Because you have some takeaways that you keep in and they don't go away. It's amazing. but that's the, I don't know if you agree, if you've seen that, a lot of people don't want to invest in terms of hiring a coach. I've got coaches that I use. Like you have to invest in yourself, it's just, there's no, It's, that's a nice shortcut for people.
[00:44:46] If they really want to get ahead, definitely spend money on yourself and hire people that are experts to help you.
[00:44:51] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:44:51] Okay. I totally believe in that as well. Completely. George. it's honestly been a real pleasure
[00:44:57] George McGehrin: [00:44:57] to speak with you today.
[00:44:59] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:44:59] so thank [00:45:00] you so much for being on the show and, anyone who wants to get in touch with George, check out the show notes.
[00:45:04] All the contact details will be there and, let's stay in touch. Yeah,
[00:45:09] George McGehrin: [00:45:09] send it. I'm going to, I'm going to send you a WhatsApp message when we get off this. So you have my number and, my brother from a different mother. I appreciate it, Matt. Yeah.
[00:45:17] Matt Garrow-Fisher: [00:45:17] Thanks Juliet.
[00:45:18] George McGehrin: [00:45:18] Awesome. Thanks man. See
[00:45:19] you.